The Restaurant Technology Guys Podcast brought to you by Custom Business Solutions
The Restaurant Technology Guys Podcast brought to you by Custom Business Solutions
Succeeding in the Restaurant Industry with NRN's Sam Oches
Succeeding in the Restaurant Industry with NRN's Sam Oches
In this episode, Jeremy Julian hosts Sam Oches, Editor in Chief of The Nation's Restaurant News, to discuss significant trends and insights shaping the restaurant industry in 2025 and beyond. Sam highlights the success strategies of top restaurant brands like Texas Roadhouse, Chick-fil-A, Raising Cane's, and Jersey Mike's, emphasizing consistency, quality, and efficient operations. They also explore innovation while maintaining brand integrity, employee investment, and managing growth. Moreover, they delve into the impact of technology, especially in enhancing employee efficiency, and the importance of adaptive strategies for casual dining brands. The episode is rich with strategies for navigating the evolving restaurant landscape.
00:00 Sam Oches
00:41 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:08 Sam Oches: Background and Role
02:15 Current Trends in the Restaurant Industry
02:40 Successful Restaurant Brands and Their Strategies
04:36 Balancing Consistency and Innovation
10:48 Employee Investment and Retention
15:14 Growth Strategies and Challenges
19:30 Casual Dining: Challenges and Opportunities
20:17 Introduction to Fogo de Chão's Success
20:45 Gen Z's Favorite Full-Service Restaurant
21:47 The Evolution of Casual Dining
22:37 Twin Peaks: A Modern Sports Bar Experience
23:26 Gustavo Group's Community-Centric Approach
24:47 Balancing Tradition and Innovation
27:39 Future of Restaurant Technology
31:43 Employee Engagement and Retention Strategies
34:39 Connecting with Industry Leaders
This is the Restaurant Technology Guys podcast, helping you run your restaurant better.
Jeremy Julian:I think everyone out there for joining us today. I am joined by a very special guest. I've been reading what, what Sam has been writing for quite some time and just kind of in the world of restaurants and restaurant, restaurant articles, but Sam, why don't you introduce yourself a little bit to our audience for those that, I am certain everybody's read a lot of what you've written and probably recognize the face because you guys have been getting a little bit more digital with your podcast as well. But, for those that are living under a rock and haven't seen you out there on the social world and whatnot, introduce yourself to our listeners.
Sam Oches:Sure. Well, thank you, Jeremy, for having me. really a pleasure to be here. so I'm Sam Oches. I'm the editor in chief of Nations Restaurant News, the editorial director for NRN and our sister publication Restaurant Hospitality. I've been covering food service for almost 16 years now, and, I count myself as the luckiest guy on the face of the earth that I get to do this for a living. so of course, Nations Restaurant News, a trade publication for the restaurant industry, totally free for qualified operators. nrn. com. I have an amazing team that is cranking out content every single day on the website. We also have a print publication, Nations Restaurant News, and everybody can go out and subscribe to that. But yes, we do lots of multimedia now. I have a podcast called Takeaway with Sam Oches. we also have a podcast called Extra Serving that myself and our executive editor, Alicia Kelso, host. And, then also social, all the social accounts. We're, we're, we're constantly going that direction. So, very exciting industry to cover. Again, very lucky that I get to do this. very happy to be here. Thanks, Jeremy.
Jeremy Julian:Awesome. I appreciate you being on. And, I know we talked a little bit, you know, Joanna's been on the show. I just recorded with Alicia, but haven't published it yet. So, we'll see. We'll, we'll get these things out there, but, really from, from my perspective, we're recording this in early 2025, Sam, I'd love for you to kind of just talk macro macro restaurants. What are you seeing trends? What are you seeing working? Well, let's start down the path of what's been working really well. And then maybe we'll get into kind of where do you, where do you see some opportunities to make some investments and change some, change some behavior. And some brands. Sure.
Sam Oches:You know, I think what's working well. I've talked a lot about a certain handful of, of restaurant companies in the past several months, as far as companies that I think brands that everybody should look to as being examples of what to do. and there are four in mind that come to, come to mind, Texas Roadhouse, Texas Roadhouse. Chick fil a, Raising Cane's and Jersey Mike's. so when I look at what is successful, who's doing a good job right now, those four are the ones that they seem to be immune from any economic changes, any global pandemics, they continue to perform extraordinarily well. And what I would glean from those companies is that what's working right now is consistency is a, an intense focus on quality and efficiency. And on hospitality and on not innovating for innovation's sake, those four companies in particular, a wide range of ages. Of course, Chick fil A and Jersey Mike's been around 50, 60 years. and Texas Roadhouse in Raising Cane's for about 30 years. all of them are either founder led or founder inspired. They're, they're still very much playing by the playbook of the founder and they all there, none of them make any rash decisions. They're not rushing into any marketing campaign, any value deal, any new product, any tick tock inspired, whatever they are, just head down. We're going to do this very well and we're going to do it over and over and over again. And all of them, if you look at their numbers, Are just absolutely crushing it. They're all doing between five and well, Jersey Mike's from a sandwich concept, you know, about 2. 5 to 3 million AUV. The other three are doing over 5 million AUV, right? So I think that's a broad way to answer your question, Jeremy. But I think what's working right now is those companies that no matter the volatility of what we're going through right now from an economic standpoint, from a political climate, no matter any of those things, those companies just consistently do what they do best and they don't try to be anything else.
Jeremy Julian:yeah, and the funny thing though though as you say that I think of some of the most innovative brands Chick fil a is one of those brands that comes to mind because they do dabble and so I guess I would love to understand from your perspective because quite frankly all of them have dabbled You know, canes dabbles because they've got such crazy drive thru and kind of the ways that they go Even the dining room layouts i've been into some different canes You I've been to quite a few, Texas Roadhouse. So how does, how do brands that are out there listening, stay consistent to who they are and who they want to be and still innovate because we see a lot of the brands that are suffering or those brands that tried to stay who they are and didn't stay up with the time. So how do you, how do you manage that? Or how would you say that that brand should manage that?
Sam Oches:It's a great question. One that I ask people all the time as well, because I think the restaurant industry especially is one that faces this question all the time. When you look at the biggest chains in America and you look at some of these brands that have been around for generations, they have a legacy to protect. They have a heritage. They have the nostalgia factor. Some of these companies where you have customers who've been coming in for For 5, 6, 7 decades in some instances. And if you innovate too much, if you press too much on the accelerator, you're going to, you're going to really turn them off because this is not what I expect out of that restaurant. Right. so in the restaurant industry, I do think you have a lot of those who have to be more careful with their innovation for that sake. And to answer your question, yes, of the four I mentioned, Chick fil A for sure has done the most consumer facing innovation of any of them, I think by a long shot. If you think about that new drive through, they opened in Georgia with, you know, the four drive through lanes and it's very much like a bank and you know, lowering the food down and all that. That's about as innovative as it comes. That's fancy, that's super technology powered. I think Chick fil A has done an incredibly admirable job. As far as digital innovation, their mobile app, the ways in which they continue to develop that, you know, they're putting out content now on, you know, with an app, right? So Chick fil A clearly is still pushing with innovation. And I got to tell you, Jimmy, I think to some degree, that's because they have permission from their customer when they look and see that they're doing 9 million per restaurant per year, right? They know that the customer, the Chick fil A customer. Isn't going to say, Hey, wait a second. You're making content now. I disagree. I'm going to take my business elsewhere. They're not doing that. Right. They're just like, I go to Chick fil A all the time because I love Chick fil A and I'm going to keep going to Chick fil A. So Chick fil A has permission to innovate. and it's not to say that the other companies do not have that permission, but I do think there's, they're a little bit more protective and I'll go all the way to the other end with Texas roadhouse. I spent a lot of time with Texas roadhouse a few months ago. We named them our brand icon of 2024. I spent some time in their headquarters with CEO, Jerry Morgan and some of several other executives and you know, you when yo Roadhouse, you're not gon technology. You're not go fancy bells and whistles. of what texas Roadhouse l ago, maybe with the excep on the floor. because loud music, they have friendly, weight staff. They have, you know, a menu that has barely changed in 30 years. and they have moved their innovation more to the back of the house because Texas Roadhouse is like the slice of Americana that could not change. It is because every community in America that has a Texas roadhouse, it just feels like you're stepping out of time when you go into this place. And you know that in 1996 and in 2025, the experience is going to be the same. And that's why you go there. That's what you want, but they do innovate. in ways that are more, employee focused, right? So Texas Roadhouse recently rolled out a KDS, which has been doing wonders for them. As I, as far as I understand it, you know, they work on making the lives of their employees a lot easier. they, but that will resist third party delivery. They'll resist a lot of the other, again, bells and whistles that are, are, are becoming popular with restaurants. And so a long winded way of answering your question, Jeremy, was just, is just to say, I think every restaurant has to take a temperature for, you know, what their brand is and what it represents to the customer and understand how much permission they have from the customer to innovate. Because if you don't have to put in that kiosk, if you don't have to, you know, build that fancy drive through, because it might turn off your customers who don't expect that from you. Then don't do it. It might not be right for you.
Jeremy Julian:Yeah, no. And I just, I was just on a show that just released this week, the week that we're recording this. And I was talking about it with, with Troy Hooper from, from pepper lunch, and he was asking, he's like, what do, what do brands do that make the most mistakes? It's, they don't really know who they are. And I think the undercurrent from all four of these brands is they know who they are and they know where the innovations need to happen in order to meet their both guests expectation as well as their staff expectation. Yeah.
Sam Oches:Yeah, it's like a core value thing. Right. And again, not to overuse the Texas road houses example, but, but I think some of these brands are just so good at having these core values again, like a, like a blueprint and for Texas roadhouse, that's Kent Taylor founder, Kent Taylor, who passed away a few years ago, but he left behind this very dedicated, I mean, he wrote a book right before he passed. He had written a book and it's a very. Detail dedicated plan for how you succeed and they stick to it and they don't change the rules. And so that's where I think if you have strong core values, you have a blueprint for what the brand represents and you don't waver from that, then you're going to do fine.
Jeremy Julian:I love that. the other piece that I think, I heard as a thread and, and I'd love at least your opinion on this. And then there's a brand that I. grew up with in, in and out. And I know quite a bit of the family, they're a very similar brand in that regard that they know who they are and they know what they're doing. But my wife worked there. My best friend worked at in and out is their care for employees, their investment in their team. When I think about all four of those brands that you mentioned that are doing it well, something they also do is, is they not only know who they are as a brand and how they're going to engage with the consumer, But they invest a lot in the team members that are coming in. And, and in many of them, I don't even think I call them employees. They call them team members or they have some other colloquialism that's related to that. can you expand upon that? Because I think it's, it's what makes the restaurant industry go is the people that are there as much as the food and the experience and the ambiance. And if you do it well. You can tell, and when you don't do it well, you can tell.
Sam Oches:Yeah, look, it's probably become a little cliche by now, but if you take care of your employees, they will take care of your guests, right? So, especially today with the situation we're in with labor, where the unemployment level is very low. And where it's very difficult to find good employees. Everybody is trying to figure out how do we recruit, hire, retain. and that retain part is crucial. Once you find that person who is an all star employee or team member or whatever, you hold on to them as tightly as you can. and, and again, with your core values, If you have core values and you hire against those and you find candidates who are reflective of those values, then that's going to be an easy match. It's going to, you're going to meld well with that customer and they're going to want to be a part of what you're building. but you've got to really then put your money where your mouth is. And that's literal money. Sometimes of course, pay your employees well. but offer benefits, try to invest and incentivize, in these, in these employees so that they have no incentive to leave, that they don't want to depart. But I would also add, you know, try to show them the path that they have forward. I think the companies that do this best. They have developed a talent pipeline, and they they help their their employees understand how this job could turn into a career. The restaurant industry struggled with us for a long time, and it's a topic of conversation forever, which is how do how do people understand that while 50 percent of Americans get their job working behind the counter of a restaurant? You know, very few of them stick around and make a career out of it, but they can, and it can be very lucrative. and so for those companies that I think want to leverage their team members to succeed, they've got to again, invest in them from an incentives perspective, a pay perspective. and they have to show them the path that could, they could have ahead of them to becoming a leader at that company. And then again, if you do those things and your employees are happy, they feel like they belong. They're going to reflect that to your customers and then your customers are going to be happy in and out. It's a great example when they take care of their employees, their employees take care of the guests, everybody wins. Chick fil a is another example. you know, and Chick fil a especially, you know, you think about the people who want in on a Chick fil a that many thousands of, you know, applications they get for owner operators and they only select a handful, right. But you get in that pipeline and you stay in that pipeline, Chick fil a general managers are doing. You know, half million dollars a year. Like again, lucrative career, if you can get in that pipeline. So, so I, I think that's the key. Take care of your employees. They'll take care of your guests. Everybody wins, but you have to be very focused on what that looks like and taking care of your employees.
Jeremy Julian:And now a word from one of our sponsors every restaurant operator understands the chaos of a Restaurant kitchen during the meal rush restaurant technologies, oil, total oil management solutions, and end to end automated oil management system that delivers filters monitors and recycles your cooking oil, taking the dirtiest jobs out of your kitchen and letting your employees focus on more important tasks. Control the kitchen chaos with restaurant technologies and make your kitchen safer. No upfront costs to learn more, check out rti inc. com or call 888 796 4997. Yeah. And not to go towards the negative, but the opposite also has to happen. If people aren't meeting the core values, you have to make sure that they know they're not there very long. I remember playing golf with them. So we did in and out. Number of years ago, young and young in my career. And I said, how do you guys create what you do? He goes, the minute we know it's a bad apple, they're gone. It's not something that we, you know, and they've got a strong pipeline of people coming in. They've got a strong pipeline of knowing how to get people on board and, and to ingratiate them to the culture of who they are and what they do. And the people that aren't part of that culture, they stick out like a sore thumb and they're gone pretty quickly.
Sam Oches:Totally. Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah. And you know, I think it's about how. somebody told me once I knew somebody worked at a Chick fil a and you know, they were saying that they have like the whole local high schools on a roll working at their restaurant. And it's, you know, success begets success, right? Where, when you also get those, happy employees, they're going to recruit their friends to come to be a part of it. you know, I think that again, if you just focus intensely on it, to your point, Jeremy, get rid of the bad apples, focus on the good apples. The good apples will bring in more good apples. and, and then that just kind of snowballs to the point where it's like you're known to be a company everybody wants to work for. You have that advantage, that unfair advantage of being everybody's banging down your door to work there and you have kind of the pick of the litter.
Jeremy Julian:Yeah, the one last thing that I would say that I recognize about all four of these brands is that they, They were slow to grow and then they got fast. They started slow before they went fast. And I've seen too many brands that grow so far beyond. And again, you and I, I've been doing this, almost 30 years now I've watched brands that are so promising and they grow so fast and they forget who they are. I'd love a little bit of a opinion on that because I, again, Chick fil A, I'd heard about it for years back in Atlanta. Never went, never went, went to the first one there. And then, you know, like they started coming West and now they're growing really fast, same thing with raising canes. They've been around for a long enough time. I went to the original Jersey Mike's as a kid, I used to grow up at the Jersey shore and I literally used to go into that, that, that original Jersey Mike's and play Pleasant beach. So for me. The, all of these brands that you talk about started really slow and then accelerated at a pace once they kind of figured it out.
Sam Oches:Yeah, you're a hundred percent right. I think this is the third time I've actually talked about this exact thing this week, which is this idea that it is a marathon, not a sprint. And I, I totally have been in that same place where in the last 16 years, I have watched. These restaurants open up, become a little bit successful. So they grow a little bit and then they're saying, okay, now we're going to open a hundred next year.
Jeremy Julian:And you're
Sam Oches:like, no, no, that's not the point. Don't do that. and, and even when you have some chains and I'm not trying to throw anybody under the bus here, but when you look at some examples of this, I'll, I'll throw out a blaze pizza as an example of fastest growing restaurant chain in history, I think they were at the time, perhaps since surpassed by crumble cookies, which is another story, you know, Blaze peaked. They did 505 years and it's great. And then. Now, I think they're retooling now. So I, I, I, hopefully they'll, they'll, you know, get back to growth again. But I guess the point is, is like, what good is 505 years? If you're not around in 50, you know what I mean? Or Dickies
Jeremy Julian:has been getting beat up quite a bit about doing the exact same thing recently. And, and again, I'm not picking on Dickies. It's been stuff that you guys have written about, but it's very similar. Chris Demery, the CTO of a blaze was on recently as well on the show. And he and I talked about. How they had to go back to the roots of who they were and what made them successful and go back and reinvest in those things because they were shiny objects as well as grow at all, at all costs rather than finding the right franchisees, keeping the culture to the core.
Sam Oches:Yeah, yeah, I think crumble again is the latest example that, you know, we're not fully, we don't fully know what's going to happen there, but everybody was just. So shocked at a thousand restaurants in six years or something they did. but then last year it was a little bit, okay. Some of the cracks are starting to show. And I wish the best for all of these folks. Cause I recognize these companies have thousands of employees whose livelihoods depend on that. And so wouldn't wish ill will, but I think these things have to be a model for what. other companies do. These have to be red flags that growth does not have to be number of locations. I think that's such an important part. You can grow your culture. You can grow within your four walls. You can, you know, you can grow in so many team members. You can grow your team members totally. And whether you have five units or 500 that that's not the measure of success. The measure of success is, you know, what you're serving, how you're serving your customers, the role you play in their lives, and whether or not you can do that for the long term. So coming back to your point, yes, all of those companies that I mentioned, those four companies, Jersey Mike's, I think especially, This is a company that when I started covering this industry industry 16 years ago, out of, you know, it grew up in Ohio. I had never heard of Jersey bikes. And, you know, then they kind of pop up radar as a sort of up and coming chain at the time they made maybe had less than a thousand locations. Okay. Whatever, what's this about? I tried it. I loved it. And now they're getting sold for 8 billion and they're opening two to 300 a year and, and it's 50 years in the making. And Peter Kinkrow is one of the industries. One of the absolute titans of this industry. Everybody should learn from Peter Cancro and what he accomplished at Jersey Mikes. And that was one of the big things. I think he was just really patient. He took care of his people. They have an amazing culture at Jersey Mike's when you get to know their executives, you know, that they know who they are and what they're doing. And that gave them the ability by, by really kind of being patient in that growth to slammed on that slam down on that accelerator. You know, once they got to that point where they felt like they could.
Jeremy Julian:Love that. I appreciate you sharing those stories. And again, not looking to pick on any of those people, but I'm going to flip it around and say, so now I'm one of those brands and let's, let's live in the casual dining space. Cause
Sam Oches:yeah,
Jeremy Julian:there's been a lot written about casual dining. It's been, you know, taking punches in the mouth. There's been some that have been successful. You talked about Texas roadhouse. I know you guys have written about Brinker and Olive garden still doing relatively well in the, in the space overall, but now I'm one of those brands and I'm looking to, to get back to being more successful, you know, they got kicked in the teeth with, with COVID. We had a little bit of a renaissance there post COVID and now it's back to traffic is down. We're not growing. We're, we're really struggling. What is the commonality or what are the things that you're seeing within casual dining that brands need to be evaluating and aware of in order to get back to not just growth, but to being successful and feeling like they're in a good spot.
Sam Oches:Yeah, it's a great question. I'll give you a couple of examples. the first one I'll say is, someone I spoke to this week who will be a guest on my podcast takeaway here in a few weeks is Barry McGowan, the CEO of Fogo to Show. And, talk about patience. This, this, you know, Barry became, joined Fogo, 12 years ago. And, it's another brand that like. For me, I had not, I was not really familiar with Fogo maybe five years ago. And then they started to creep up onto my radar. I'm like, what's this Brazilian brand? What's this all about? And now, and I think I can say this because it will be live. I'm sure by the time this episode goes up, they're on the cover of our January issue because they are one of America's favorite chains. we partnered with Technomic on our America's favorite chains report. Fogo, I believe was number seven on the, on the top 10 and they were also Gen Z's. Number one full service restaurant
Jeremy Julian:and you know,
Sam Oches:it's incredible. I mean, and that's a test because it's not an
Jeremy Julian:inexpensive brand to go to, you know, and I'm not saying that to pick on anybody, but everybody talks about price being one of the barriers and everybody took price too high. So I apologize for stopping you. But I think it's something that They're charging a premium, but they're delivering a product that's, that's different. So sorry, I'll let you keep going. No,
Sam Oches:totally. And that, that was exactly what I said to Perry. I'm like, how do you resonate with Gen Z when you're a more upscale expensive option? And you know, it's a number of things. but I, but he, you know, as he says, there's, it's the experience. Fogo gives a little bit more of a choose your own adventure experience. It's the quality. It's the, The fact that it's a global brand with some really new kind of flavors that people aren't expecting. certainly it's in the hospitality. There's a vibe to it. And as he and I were talking, so I, I live in Columbus and about two minutes from my house, they're building a Fogo. It's going to open here in the next month or two. And I've never been, so I'm very excited for this. And, and, and this was so reflective to me of the casual dining space. And I told Barry this on the podcast, which is they're building the Fogo in an old Oh, Charlie's. And that was like. That's so indicative, I think, of what the casual dining space is right now. And again, not to pick on O'Charlie's, but O'Charlie's, here's a concept that's a little bit tired, a little bit of your standard kind of casual sort of sports bar kind of vibe. Yeah. Yeah. And it's an American menu. you know, there, there's a, those are dime a dozen, those kinds of concepts. And last year they closed several, including the one by my house. And Fogo is building and I think Fogo is just going to kill in this location because it's more of the moment. It's more what people are looking for. and I think I would compare it to, especially in the sports bar category, something like Twin Peaks. So Twin Peaks, regardless of what you think about their hospitality model, you know, they have an incredible food and beverage platform. Their food is really good. Their bar menu is super expansive. They have something for everybody. And Joe Hummel, their CEO will tell you it's. They don't want to be your average sports bar with the local jerseys on the wall. They want to be the place that you come and you have a phenomenal experience. There's like 200 TVs in every one of them. So there's something that you want to watch, but they take you seriously. They take their guests seriously by giving them great food and beverage. And so again, indicative for me of. Where casual dining is going is that the, the bar is set high. You have mm-hmm To provide a great, you have to provide great food and beverage. The last example I'll give you is Gustavo Group out of Denver. and so this is a group that only operates within Colorado. Recently spoke with Peter Newlin, one of the partners there. and you can listen to that on my, on my podcast. but he talked about how, you know, this is a restaurant group with a few concepts, homegrown is one of theirs, a pizza place, a park burger. And, they are very committed to the suburbs. but they're also very committed to doing these sort of local concepts only within colorado. And his whole point was on experience that they want to go and build a casual dining experience that is of the community of the people in that neighborhood. Because to his point, he said, if you look at the suburbs, you just have a lot of really standard chains and they're all very same similar trade dress. They're all very kind of cookie cutter, you know, not to not to say that's totally that way. But He saw this opportunity to say, well, let's build something that feels like an independent restaurant, even though they have multiple units and then people are going to go there because they get that experience of feeling like I'm at a restaurant that's reflective of my community, my personality, the kind of brand I want, and then they have great food and beverage. So those are the examples I would give you for the casual space in terms of the bar is high. Don't just do the cookie cutter experience. Do something a little bit. Different or at least better.
Jeremy Julian:Yeah. Well, and I think, what I heard you say through that whole thread, Sam, was the fact that each one of these people, even including the first four brands, as they were constantly reinvesting in who they were and testing different things that were going out there. So how do people do that successfully? So they don't run into the problem that you said, I know Charlie's that I want my Monte Cristo sandwich, cause I've had the Monte Cristo sandwich since 1953. And I want that sandwich. And, you know, and again, I'm, I'm, I'm being a little bit dramatic about it, but. We've all had those situations where we would go with our parents or our grandparents, and it was always that place that you went, you know, with them. And they have to modify the menu. They have to change, but if they change too much, they lose both ends of the spectrum. So I guess, how would you recommend our listeners that are out there think about that?
Sam Oches:Yeah, it's a great point. you know, one thing that Peter Newland of Gustavo group told me is, you know, he said, you have to remember that your restaurant is a living, breathing organism. And so I think one point is that you do have to constantly evolve, even though I recognize that's a little bit counter to what I was saying earlier, where, you know, you, you have to be consistent. You do have to evolve because I think if you feel like you're too much stuck in the past, people will recognize that too. and so if, yeah, if. If you're not a brand that is known for its innovation, because one, I would say, by the way, we just have to sit, we had to set as kind of a North star when it comes to innovation, I'm going to say is Taco Bell when you, when, you know, it comes to a company that has licensed from its customers to do whatever the heck they want. It's Taco Bell, which I think we should all be jealous of because I think they're having the most fun in this entire industry. but they get away with that because that's the expectation of the customer. and if you're not Taco Bell, but you're not Texas roadhouse, I think that you have to try to slowly test some of these things. And of course, you know, if it's a menu, try it on a limited basis, either across the system or just choose, you know, maybe you have a couple of corporate locations that you can just kind of test a few of these things. but especially again, going back to some of the technology, especially that can improve the efficiency of your employees, your back of house, you know, I think you can roll that out over time. Don't overwhelm your employees. Don't confuse them. But it makes some of these changes. at a patient pace again, going back to patients and, and just be ready to fail fast, right? So if it's not a part of your brand and it's not going to work to your point about employees, get it out fast because you need to, you need to pivot and choose something else, but you will suffer if you don't. Try, which I think is what Peter was saying, that it's a living, breathing organism.
Jeremy Julian:Well, and I love you talked about evolution that takes time, that takes iterations. That's just constantly iterating versus some revolution where, you know, and we've all seen these brands where they're going to put a new facelift on it. They throw a new logo outside, they paint the building and then the entire menus changed versus changing 10 percent or 20 percent of the menu and evolving over time. And so. I love that, that idea. I'm changing gears here for just a minute. it is the restaurant technology guys podcast after all. where do you see 2025 investment in technology going? Where do you see the majority of the time, energy and money spent as it relates to brands? Because I think. You know, we, and that's a very broad question, but I say it because I think that, that a lot of people get shiny object syndrome in our industry. whether that's, I gotta have wings cause wings are the hot thing, or I gotta have Greek food cause Greek food's the hot thing, or, you know, whatever those are on the menu selection, they do the same thing with, with tech, but where do you see things working well? And, and, you know, 2024 coming into 2025, where do you see that going?
Sam Oches:Yeah, if I had to guess, and it's and it's kind of similar to what I've been saying before, which is, I think it's going to be tech that makes the employees lives easier because I think everybody's trying to solve for labor and everybody recognizes the potential that technology has in solving for labor, whether that's replacing employees, you know, with a kiosk or whatever. or whether that's being able to reallocate your labor with, with technology or, ultimately complimenting your employees. But technology, that's the trend I think I see the most of, which is how do we adopt technology in the kitchen behind the counter at the drive through window that doesn't necessarily do the job of the employee, but makes it so that it's easier. It's perhaps even more fun that they can enjoy it, that they can, you know, maybe take the opportunity to provide more hospitality because the technology has picked up some of what they're doing. you know, if I had to give a, an extreme example, I think about Donato's here in Columbus, you know, Donato's developed this kind of robotic equipment to, assemble their pizzas. I don't think they've scaled that too far yet.
Jeremy Julian:Kevin was actually just, I recorded a show with him last week. The CEO, he and I were talking about. So it's actually coming, I think in Q1, he said it's very, very soon. So probably by the time both of these shows out are out, he'll have his full robot. he'll have his full robot. And I think it's inside of the airport, right? I think that's it. So that's where his first store is going to be with the robot. So sorry. I mean, literally you brought that concept up and he was just on the show last week.
Sam Oches:intuition. I love that. Yeah. And I, I got to go last year. I think the last year, maybe a year before they did a, they did a celebration at their original location where they were testing this. equipment and, and again, it's a little bit more extreme, but you know, their idea was if you have, you know, this robotic equipment that's slicing the pepperoni and putting it on, you know, their whole commitment is a hundred pepperonis on a pepperoni pizza. So, but it can do that very efficiently. There's one that does the sauce, one that does the cheese. Not only is it making your pizza very. consistently. but again, it's essentially the employee has to press a button and then move it on to the next one. And they said, you know, this is not, this is not make the whole kitchen a robot. And so I don't need any kitchen employees. This is suddenly people want to work at Donato's a little bit more because It's not super challenging work and you're not, you know, having that kind of laborious, type of, of work that you might have had in the past with, with a pizza shop. So that's an example of where I think that the technology will continue to go in and it doesn't have to be robotics. I should also add, right? Maybe this is just equipment that's digitized and, you know, the timers and, you know, this stuff been around for a while, but like, you know, That will continue to evolve and say, how do we automate as much of this as possible for the employee so that they can be happier so that we can do a better job recruiting and people know they can come here and not, you know, they can enjoy their work. and that we've supported them through this technology. So that'd be my guess. I think to your point, the shiny object syndrome, I, there's a place for kiosks. There's a place for, you know, anything digital phone, mobile, mobile based. But, you know, if you look at the extreme on that side with like the metaverse, where a couple of years we all thought customers were going to be, you know, engaged in the metaverse and it is. Yeah, that's like, Whoa, what were we thinking? Like, no, they're not going to do that. So don't push too far. Don't go into these wackadoodle ideas, give them something that fits the concept. and, and then especially I would just suggest again, technology going into the backup house and kitchen to help your employees.
Jeremy Julian:Yeah, one last piece about employee engagement that we've seen a lot of, and I'd love your opinion on it, is things that make the employees lives easier outside of the four walls. We know that a lot of employees have gotten stuck with, you know, a lot of employees have left for the gig economy because they can work when they want to work. They can change their shifts, they can come on, they can get paid the same day that they went and did their shift. Delivery for door to Asher or Uber Eats or Amazon for that matter. we're seeing people more and more brands looking at getting same day pay, getting access and casual dining to their tips same day. You know, when I grew up in the restaurants, you know, 30 years ago, I used to walk, walk home with hundreds of dollars in cash in my pocket. No longer is that the case. And restaurants are really struggling to keep up with that. Nowadays, figuring out how to allow them to change chefs, communicate with each other about their chefs, as well as get access to their pay through some That's integrated to the store. Have you seen brands doing that? We're seeing it. I just, I would love your thoughts on that because again, it's a retention tool. It's a engagement tool. It's a, it's a tool to make their lives easier when they are, can't work or, or need time off or whatever else.
Sam Oches:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We're seeing brands go in that direction too. And, and a lot of that is listening. employee, right? Listen to what they need, what they want. and, and stay in tuned with what kind of technology you have at your fingertips to be able to accommodate that. So a lot of these platforms popped up to facilitate that same day pay. And so, yes, if, if there's not a downside to that necessarily, I'm sure there are some, but like at this point in time, you do not have the luxury to not. employees, right? You really have to give them all of these things. If you've, if you've maxed out on what you can pay them on an hourly basis, because I'm sure Jeremy, you have this as well as I do at all the fast food restaurants around me, there's decals in the window talking about 16, 17 an hour. You know, if you can't, if you can't continue to max that out and compete with everybody, compete on another front and that's same day pay, maybe. I think Starbucks recent, update of its benefits for employees, which especially includes, parental leave. you know, they, they give now, I believe 18 weeks for birth parents and 12 weeks for non birth parents. I mean, that's, that's better than a lot of corporations, right. For parental leave and, and, you know, Starbucks, of course, for its scale. Can't get away with something like that. Maybe a smaller, you know, a midsize or emerging chain can't do that. But these are the things you have to be thinking about. Do you have parents on your team? How do you give them flexible hours so that they can take care of their kids? You know, what, do you have, you know, young people who maybe need some help going to college? That's another thing Starbucks has been, has been doing paying for a digital program. So I don't think we're in this day and age anymore where you can just assume teenagers need jobs. They're going to come to me for a job. You have to be out there aggressively competing for talent because it will benefit you in the long run, as we talked about earlier, and you are going to have to get pretty competitive with what you're offering.
Jeremy Julian:Love it, Sam, I am going to, I'm going to stop here just because I know typically when we get to about that 30 minute mark, people start to fall off. But, how do people, how do people engage? How do people learn more about, how to stay connected with you, the brands? I mean, you guys have so much, as you said, your, your staff is so prolific and I love, you know, genuinely, I, it's like. Part of how I start my day every day is reading what it is that your team, you and your team have put out there. So how do they engage? How do they get on the newsletter? How do they get with the daily emails and the, you know, the magazine and all of that?
Sam Oches:Yeah, I appreciate that, Jeremy. Thank you. so go to nrn. com. the easiest way to do all of this. if you go to nrn. com, we have a subscribe button on there. You can subscribe to our AM newsletter, which is every, weekday. day. We have a range of other newsletters that will give you the option to subscribe to as well. some for fast casual, some for QSR, some for casual dining. so we have a range of newsletters you can subscribe to. So you get in your inbox all the news and information that you could possibly need. we also do, as I mentioned, have a print publication. So we have a monthly edition of nation's restaurant news that you can subscribe to. If you're a qualified restaurant operator, you get it for free. so highly recommend people do that. But go subscribe to take away with Sam Oches. My podcast. Subscribe to extra serving, which is our flagship NRN podcast. And then you can also follow me on LinkedIn. We'd love to connect with you.
Jeremy Julian:Awesome. last one just shows that you guys are, are putting on. Cause, I know that that's also, I mean, I, I ran into you at FS tech in September, but I know that you guys have got lots of different places that you're out and out in the public sphere. So if, if people want to engage in any of those, opportunities, where would you suggest they go?
Sam Oches:Yeah, absolutely. So we're, we're incredibly lucky to be a part of a group called Informa Connect Food Service, which has come together in the last two years. and so we own several events for the restaurant operator. The next one coming up is Restaurant Leadership Conference, and that's in Castile in April. Yeah, that's a good one. and if you just Google Restaurant Leadership Conference, you can, you can find it and request an invite. after that, there's the National Restaurant Association show in May, which is a part of our portfolio. Of course, the biggest food show, I believe, in the world. that's a trade show. So if you're looking for new ideas and inspiration, it's a great place to be. after that, we have F. S. Tech, which is in September this year, I believe in Orlando. F. S. Tech is if you are in the tech space, that is the place to be. Food service. Tech is obviously Continuing to change every year. So there's lots to learn about there. And the final one I'd throw at you is create. So we launched this a few years ago. create is an October in Nashville. That's for emerging operators. So don't put a number of requirements on it, but I typically say if you have between two and 200 locations, create is the event for you.
Jeremy Julian:Awesome, Sam. so much for what you guys do every day. again, I, you know, the purpose of the show is really to help restaurants to succeed, and I know you guys are on that same path. So to our listeners, guys, we know that you guys have lots of choices. So thank you guys for hanging out. If you haven't already subscribed to the show, please do so and make it a great day. Awesome. Thank you.
Thanks for listening to the Restaurant Technology Guys podcast. Visit www. RestaurantTechnologyGuys. com for tips, industry insights, and more to help you run your restaurant better.
